S2 Ep 2-Leaving the Firehouse, Entering the Madhouse

[00:00:00] Jen Pennington: I think having a system of communication between the spouses to indicate what is actually needed. For example, to have maybe a special word or a special signal that indicates that the fire fighter just needs five minutes to themselves to be able to transition, also to having clear communication, asking, what is it that you need right now?

[00:00:23] Laura Takacs: Hey, Seattle fire fighters. This is Jen Pennington, your host at ListenUPL27. Recently we interviewed Laura Tokic, the new mental health program director here at Station 2 Clinic. And if you haven’t, go back and listen to her Mental Health 101 episode. And we’re thrilled to have her back. Laura, thanks again for being here again.

[00:00:43] Jen Pennington: It’s always great to be here, Jen, thanks.

[00:00:45] Laura Takacs: Let’s start with a little bit about you. What drew you to working with fire fighters and first responders?

[00:00:50] Jen Pennington: I’ve had a number of years working with trauma, loss and grief, and I feel very honored and I feel very comfortable being able to hold the stories that I hear, the sadness, the sorrow that people are coming in with. And the fire fighters, they’re a culture, they’re a family that holds a lot of trauma, a lot of loss and a lot of grief. And so I feel very honored to be here, to be able to be a part of that healing journey with them.

[00:01:24] Laura Takacs: So the title of this episode is Leaving the Firehouse, Entering the Madhouse. Why is this transition from work to home so jarring for people in high intensity jobs like fire fighting?

[00:01:36] Jen Pennington: Fire fighters can feel like they live in two separate worlds, one at the fire station and one when they get home. At the fire station, they have a particular role that they play. There’s a clear chain of command. There’s routines, there’s purpose, there’s decisions that they have to make. There is some sort of control. But when they go home, the level of chaos, the level of lack of control, emotional complexity, those all change. And so it can feel like very much that fire fighters are living in two separate worlds.

[00:02:11] Laura Takacs: So let’s talk about some of the common challenges fire fighters face when they walk through that door at home after a shift.

[00:02:17] Jen Pennington: Right off the bat, just the change in identity, who they are, the role that they play within the fire department changes dramatically once they get home. And they have to shed that identity that they’ve had at the fire station. Now, they are dad or they are spouse or they are brother or sister. They know what is expected of them at the fire station. But at home, it can look very chaotic. It can be changing from day to day, from hour to hour, depending on what is going on within the family.

And also this Emotional grind. Fire fighters are very adept at putting their emotions aside when they’re on the job, but when they walk home, when they walk into the door, emotions can be flying all over, ricocheting all over the walls. And now they are thrusted into having to address emotions not only of the other family members, but also their own emotions. And, and that can really lead to a lack of control, chaos, and a lack of ambiguity about what your role is.

[00:03:25] Laura Takacs: And how do you think that in terms of understanding the transition, how does the nervous system respond to that abrupt switch from structured, you know, mission based environments to the unpredictability of family life?

[00:03:39] Jen Pennington: Feeling of emotional disconnect that it’s very difficult to switch from pushing your emotions aside or compartmentalizing your emotions to now having to work with, hold, handle not only other people’s emotions, but their own, their own emotional state. Clearly fatigue and sleep disruption, which is what every fire fighter experiences at home. The expectation that they get good sleep at home, that’s very, very difficult to do. So that transition of sleep can really dysregulate both physically and emotionally. Cognitively.

[00:04:18] Laura Takacs: What is some of the understanding that a spouse or a family member should have when that fire fighter walks through the door?

[00:04:25] Jen Pennington: I think having a system of communication between the spouses to indicate what is actually needed. For example, to have maybe a special word or a special signal that that indicates that the fire fighter just needs five minutes to themselves to be able to transition. Also to having clear communication, asking what is it that you need right now? And of course, it’s on the responsibility of the fire fighter to be able to clearly communicate what is needed. Respectfully, this is what I need.

[00:05:00] Laura Takacs: As we begin to talk a little bit more about this transition. It’s a two way street in a lot of cases, right? Absolutely. You mentioned that therapy helps people learn how their body processes stress.

Can you share a bit about what that looks like in practice and why that matters at home?

[00:05:19] Jen Pennington: I think it’s also very important that the fire fighter have a ritual before walking into the door to be able to relieve stress. However, that looks that could look like sitting in your car for an extra 10 minutes when you pull into the driveway. That could mean when you’re sitting in the driveway before you’re walking into the house, to be mindful about your breath, taking in deep breaths and releasing for maybe two or three minutes and also stretching.

I think that those deliberate rituals will help fire fighters transition into a home, Leaving behind the firehouse and walking into their home.

[00:06:01] Laura Takacs: What are some simple strategies or habits that fire fighters can use to ease that transition between the firehouse and home life.

[00:06:08] Jen Pennington: I think talking to other fire fighters to ask them what works, that can be very helpful in gathering tips and tricks about what works. I think being very mindful of what is not working within the house and having respectful communication to, to your spouse and to your children about their needs because they are just as much a part of this family unit as the fire fighter is.

[00:06:35] Laura Takacs: How would a fire fighter who’s coming home maybe communicate some things to children who, you know, children don’t have that sense of wanting to give somebody time or something like that. How, how do you communicate things like this that are, you know, trying, you’re trying to de stress from your day and you’ve got children in your house and it may be all out chaos or something. How would you communicate that?

[00:06:58] Jen Pennington: I think both mom and dad have to come together so the responsibility doesn’t rest on one or the other. And talking to the children about, in age appropriate language, what it means that daddy or mommy might have been away at work for a day or two or maybe more. This is what we’re going to do as a family to make mommy or daddy’s transition back home as fun as possible. Again, this is age appropriate language that needs to be used. But letting the children be a part of the returning home process is going to be very important for the children to feel safe, to feel comfortable, to not be afraid to, to approach mommy or daddy, all the while having clear understanding of what is needed at the time. So it could be something as simple as when mommy gets home, we’re going to give Mommy the first 30 minutes, for example, to be able to rest and take her shoes off and change her clothes. And then we’re going to come together as a whole family unit and start our new day together.

[00:08:10] Laura Takacs: Let’s talk a little bit about emotional awareness and growth. So you’re a big advocate of self compassion. Why is it so important in this specific context? And how can fire fighters start practicing it without feeling like it’s soft or indulgent?

[00:08:27] Jen Pennington: One of the benefits of having self compassion is that it allows you to have compassion for the other person, the other important people in your life. You’re able to be willing to understand a bit more where they’re coming from, their perspective on things. If you can have compassion for yourself, to be able to give yourself grace, to have feelings, to have emotions, to communicate those emotions, you’re then better able to give the grace to somebody else. I also have seen time and again that with self Compassion comes less feeling, less guilt, less regret. Guilt about being irritable, not engaging, less regret about being, snapping, snapping at the children, having less anger. So self compassion, the practice of self compassion has many benefits, not only for the fire fighter themselves, but also for the other people in their lives that they love.

Having self compassion for oneself, particularly a fire fighter or a first responder, can then translate into the community and the people that they are serving, which is very important for fire fighters because that’s in part why they became fire fighters to begin with, to help and to serve. And so when you’re able to practice self control compassion, you’re able then to share it to other people again in your life, not only within your family, but within your crew and within the community.

[00:10:08] Laura Takacs: I think that’s a really important point. You know, how you bring things home and how you show up for the job. They coexist. Very, very importantly. You talk about accountability and care coexisting. Can you explain how that balance plays out in your work with clients, especially those in demanding roles like public safety?

[00:10:27] Jen Pennington: When I see a fire fighter in my practice, a Station 2 clinic, I know that they want to work hard. They want to really dive into the pain, the trauma, the grief, the sorrow they hold, they carry. It may be job related, it might not be. It could be something from childhood. And I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be hard.

I’m not saying that the work that they do is not going to be difficult, not going to be painful. Absolutely. But change is what the goal is for the fire fighters that I’m working with. They are telling me that what they are doing, what they are holding, what they are carrying, they no longer want to. So in order to let that go, there’s going to be some hard work. That’s where the accountability comes in, that I will hold them accountable with my questions, reflections, homework that I give them and any other exercises that we’re doing in therapy. Hold them accountable for them to exact, exact that change to reach their goals.

[00:11:35] Laura Takacs: Laura, for someone who’s listening to this and thinking, that sounds like me, but I don’t know where to start. What would you say to them?

[00:11:44] Jen Pennington: The first step to take is to choose one person to talk to. You don’t have to talk to many people or everybody about what you’re experiencing, but maybe choose one trusted person. It could be a family member, crew, a spiritual leader, anybody that you feel comfortable with to just start to open the door about feeling, feeling human.

And that could be the actual starting point that I just feel really heavy today. I don’t need to go any further into it, but I just wanted somebody to know that I feel like I’m carrying a lot.

[00:12:24] Laura Takacs: What do you hope fire fighters and their families take away from this conversation today about transitioning from the firehouse to the home?

[00:12:34] Jen Pennington: That if working together as a unit, it can be accomplished, and it can be accomplished with respect, with grace and successfully. But that is the takeaway, to be able to work together, communicate respectfully, and bring all of the important players in the family together so that everybody’s on board and everybody understands what is expected.

[00:12:59] Laura Takacs: Laura, thank you so much for this conversation. And if anybody’s out there that, you know, may be feeling that they having a tough time with this transition, call up station two. And you’ve got some great mental health providers here. Laura’s one of them. Jamie Epting is another. But come on down and, you know, schedule that appointment. So thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

[00:13:20] Jen Pennington: Thank you.

[00:13:21] Jen: Thanks for joining us. Listen Up L27 is a Seattle Fire Fighter HealthCare Trust production. This podcast is produced by the Rhizome Collaborative. I’m your host, Jen Pennington. And until next time, stay safe and stay healthy.